TAO @ Area & who's upgrading (Maya 2011)?

Tools
#21

Not sure who has seen this, but ironically, I ran into a link to it while browsing the Max forums on CGtalk. :slight_smile: (for the record, I like Maya and Max, and wouldn’t mind working in either)
“Maya 2011 Bugs”

#22

[QUOTE=Rob Galanakis;6055]Your TA’s moved you from maya to max?

If so, they deserve to be fired at best, and puclicly humiliated and blacklisted at worst. Max is a nightmare to develop in and any TA worth his salt wants the easiest app to develop in- which is, unequivically and unanimously, not Max.[/QUOTE]

If they awarded a prize for ignorance, you’d win it as you clearly have a very limited knowledge of 3ds max.

#23

Do you want to qualify that statement?

#24

Argyll >> If I may ask, have you actually worked with anything else than 3dsmax yourself and if so how much and in what situations?

#25

This would actually make an interesting topic, I’ve heard from many folks what a bad development platform Max is, but i’d be interested to hear what part of Max development folks like.

#26

None of it :slight_smile:

My understanding of Rob’s point reflects my own experience. My problem hasn’t been that it is difficult to develop for (though some aspects of the documentation and MaxScript/API organization could use some work), but rather that some parts are off limits. His example of CAT is a good case in point. It’s a really slick animation tool from a user standpoint, but it’s not particularly scriptable. If you look at something like Maya on the other hand, I think you have to be trying pretty hard to make your plug-ins not automatically have hooks for scripting. I want to be clear that this is just an example though, and that I don’t mean to imply that Maya is the best application (to develop for or to use).

To answer your question for real, Seth, there are some aspects of MaxScript that I liked (particularly in comparison to MEL), and animation script controllers in Max have a little more flexibility than do Expressions in Maya (esp. for doing real math), but now that many other applications support Python it’s sort of a moot point. Python alone has been one of the biggest speed boosters for me, whatever I happen to be developing for.

#27

Talk about a thread tangent…

I have worked with Maya, MotionBuilder and Max at different studios.

You can write any tool in Max that you can write in Maya and MotionBuilder. I have actually had to do that quite often because someone would ask for something they saw on highend 3d but it was for Maya.

But… Once you have written the same tool/script for all three packages (simple example: perforce open file for edit) You will quickly find out how much nicer Maya is to programmers than Max.

Last thing before we start to get back on topic. Troubleshooting an error (99% of the time it is an artist user error :rolleyes: ) in Maya with a hypergraph and nodes is so straight forward and a simple task. In Max when something breaks it becomes a group effort to figure out WTF happened.

I will avoid any studio that uses strictly Max. My heart and blood pressure can’t take another project trying to troubleshoot issues in Max.

Just my .02

#28

A truly good TA will leave the choice of the modelling and/or animation packages to the artists and will learn to build tools on top of whatever tool(s) the artists deem the best for their needs. We exist to support the artists, not dictate to them.

#29

Jeff Hanna has got the right idea… I want to come work with him. :smiley:

#30

We’re looking for good TAs. If you’re interested let me know!

#31

Yes Jeff, I entirely agree. A truly good TA will do exactly that. A truly great TA can and will make the artists understand that their productivity and needs are best served on a platform that allows the tools teams to develop and maintain their code in the most efficient and productive manner.

#32

Yes, but we also exist to ensure our employeer that they have a good and effective pipeline. And for that it is our job to suggest the best possible software to ensure that.

So it’s a grey zone as always.

#33

No, Rob. I can’t agree with that. Code maintenance will never trump artists’ requirements for a DCC app.

#34

I am not a fan of jumping into personal opinions, because everyone is allowed to have opinions :wink:

Most of the artists I have worked with, will brag that they are an artists/animator and their skills are not package related. However they often request tools that are pipeline specific annoyances that they want to automate. A good TA will do the same, brag about their math and logic skills, and how they are not tied to a DCC.

My .02cents:
Determine a DCC that can easily fit into the pipeline. So many studios waste money trying to jam a package into a pipeline just because that is what the artists or tech artists are familiar with.

#35

We have gone down the difficult path of supporting both Max and Maya (Max for Mesh and Maya for animation) yes we have created a couple of the same tools for both apps, we went down the path of using C# as the common tools platform.

I could bitch and praise both Max and Maya, but at the end of the day we need to make the tools work in whatever app they need it in. Yes, it’s harder for somethings in certain apps (and there are some really dirty hacks) but we get it done.

I completely agree that it’s the TA’s job to suggest the best pipeline(App) for the situation but I also believe that whatever comes your way you need to do the best you can with it, as hard as it can be :S

We’re probably just spoiled here having Max and Maya.

~B)

  • We probably should move this into a new thread if we want to continue it -

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#36

Sorry Jeff but that is ridiculous. Not just I say so- it is apparent in the software of any major animation house, because it is inevitably almost all custom-written. Working within 3rd party constraints eventually becomes limiting, and choosing the app that allows you to write the best code also allows you to create the most sophisticated systems and tools for users.

I wonder who has a better animation experience- your animators using Biped, or the animators at Pixar/Dreamworks/Blue Sky/etc. using their custom stuff?

Like I said, a good TA will follow the artists needs and speed things up. A great one will lead the artists into a fundamentally better place.